On Setting Down Firm Biblical Dates



Hello Damien,

If you could spare a moment or two free, could you confirm or otherwise correct my dates for Subjects?

I have 951 as start for Asa's reign, battle would be in 936 which would be a far cry from Thiele's 896/895 BCE.

"Zerah the Ethiopian" is Sera I (Tomai) 949-923 of Dynasty of Menelik.

Amenhotep II of Egypt (ranging from 963 - 918 BCE according to Manetho's transcribers) would have an unsuccessful campaign in his 8th year - does this make sense to you?

Any light you can shine on this would be appreciated!

Best regards,

Dick Gagel

Reply

Forward

Hello Dick

To be perfectly honest, I do not concern myself with hard dates for people and biblical events. I just use circa (e.g. c. 1000 BC) to give an approximation.

The reason for this is that I do not believe that the lower dates, pertaining to Daniel and his prophecies, and their relation to Chaldeo-Persian history, have been anywhere near worked out properly yet, and so it is too early to be firm and dogmatic about any BC dates.

Having said that, my favourite date reference (as an approximation) is P. Mauro's "The Wonders of Bible Chronology". It used to be on-line.

I think you may be able to download it at: http://en.netlog.com/winnifredponce/blog/blogid=26923339

But I suspect that some of this may need to be refined in light of a sound revision.

Are you saying that Amenhotep II is "Zerah the Ethiopian" is Sera I (and who is this latter?)

Regards

Damien [Mackey]

Dick Gagel asks “isn’t the XII [Dynasty of Egypt] too early?” for Moses.

 

 

Dear Damien,

I must have had your paper on Moses ages ago, made my notes in the margin but never shared my understanding of the man’s early life with you.

Used the following to gainsay those who called him and the Exodus “a myth”.

It would appear we differ on both dynasties and chronology – isn’t the XII too early?

MOSES was a general, as fully described by Josephus in Antiquities, Book II, ch X.

In ch XI, after he had virtually saved Egypt as its victorious general over the Ethiopians/Cushites, he had to flee for his life from an assassination plot. He was heir to a throne in Egypt as the ruler had a daughter but no grandchildren. Josephus: “if Moses had been slain, there was no one, either a kin or adopted, that had any oracle on his side for pretending to the crown of Egypt.” Here are our clues – a dynasty in which Moses is General, and one which effectively ended at the point in history that Moses fled and did not regain authority in the land. There is such a dynasty which also exercised jurisdiction in the Northeastern Delta where Israel dwelt and Moses was found – Dynasty XIII.

The total length of this dynasty according to Africanus’ and Eusebius’ epitomes from Manetho was 453 years under 60 rulers. But the version of Barbarus provides a missing detail from Manetho. It reveals that for a time the court was not only at Thebes, but at Bubastis in the Delta for the first 153 years (Alfred Schoene’s edition of Eusebius, p. 214).

In the Turin Canon catalogue of kings of the thirteenth dynasty, listed number 17, is “The General” with the throne name of Semenkhkare (Gardiner’s Egypt of the Pharaohs, p. 440; and Weigall’s History of the Pharaohs, pp 136, 151-152). The Egyptian word for “the General” was Mermeshoi – not in all dynastic history does this title appear again as the personal name of a ruler of Egypt.

When Moses was made General or Commander of the Troops, he automatically inherited royal authority, as only kings could have the supreme command of the army, explaining his appearance in the list. Before the rise to power of this famous General, the thirteenth dynasty was of Asiatic blood. Its kings at time bore the epithet “the Asiatic” – hence no basic prejudice in adopting the Hebrew child Moses into the family. (See volume II, ch II of the revised Cambridge Ancient History, ed.1962.)

The sixteenth king listed in the Turin Canon – just before “the General” – is Userkare Khendjer – the latter being an un-Egyptian personal name. He ruled over the Delta as well as Upper Egypt. A pyramid of his has been found at South Saqqara. No descendant of his is known to have succeeded to the throne. Though nothing more is known of this man’s family, every evidence points to him as the Pharaoh whose daughter is mentioned in the book of Exodus. Within a few years the influence of this dynasty in the eastern Delta ceased.

The kings of this obscure period often have their names associated with king Neferkare (Turin Canon) on royal seals who is Phiops of Manetho, and commonly known as Pepi the Great. Here is the final proof that these minor rulers of Dynasty XIII were contemporaneous with the last great Pharaoh of the sixth dynasty of Memphis – the pharaoh of the Oppression. More than one name on a scarab has puzzled many historians, who view Egypt as generally ruled by one king at a time, but literally hundreds of such seals have been found. They are generally treated with discreet silence, for the implication of these seals would revolutionise the history of Egypt. (See The Sceptre of Egypt, by William C Hayes,, Vol.I, p.342)

Moses is finally able to return to Egypt “and it came to pass in the course of those many days that the king of Egypt died” (Ex. 2:23) confirms that it was a long wait as Pepi the Great ruled for 94 years and died at age 100, succeeded by his son Menthesuphis (Manetho) or Merenre II-Antyemzaef (Turin Canon) – the Pharaoh of the Exodus who ruled only one year 1487-1486, perishing in the Red Sea.

His widow Nitocris (Manetho) or Nitokerty (Turin Canon) ruled 12 years, followed by their son Neferka “the younger” – his first born elder brother and heir presumptive having died at the time of the Exodus.

Manetho ends his list here as the invading Hyksos having by then taken full control of the country with their Dynasty XV and ruled Egypt for the next 400 years.

I feel we are on safe ground to designate Pepi the Great as the oppressive pharaoh. Userkare Kendjer with an ethnic affinity with the Hebrews does not strictly apply the rules emanating from Memphis by elevating Moses who must later have gained huge popularity following his military success. Those factors may well have raised serious concerns at Memphis HO, prompting Pepi the Great to seek Moses’ death by giving those assassination orders to the Bubastis court, and also maintaining his fatwa against Moses till the end of his life and reign.
 

Best regards

….

Damien Mackey replies:

 
Dear Dick

I just remembered that I, a few months ago, wrote a proposed synthesis of the biblical era, from Abraham to the Exodus, with the corresponding Egyptian history (and archaeology). See my:

Connecting the Biblical Patriarchs to Ancient Egypt

 

http://moseseditor.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/connecting-biblical-patriarchs-to.html

The article still has to be finished, but it already contains the basis of what my view is. Fundamental to my reconstruction are the following (after that I am tentative):

-The archaeological period from Abram at the time of the four Mesopotamian kings, to the Exodus, is bookended by Abram in Late Chalcolithic and Ghassul IV (Transjordan) and the Exodus Israelites as the Middle Bronze I (MBI) people.

-According to this archaeological evidence, Abram was contemporaneous with pharaoh Narmer, who may even have been the Pharaoh of Abram and Sarai. This latter, the biblical Abimelech pharaoh of Abraham and Isaac, was clearly a very long-reigning ruler, which would suit pharaoh Aha, the first dynastic king (who may have been Narmer, and Menes).

-Joseph is surely Imhotep, and Ptah-hotep.

-I fully accept the expert testimony of Dr R. Cohen (Israelites as MBI) and Professor Emmanuel Anati (Har Karkom is Mount Sinai).

-Anati notes (and I accept this) that the story of the Egyptian Sinuhe shares ‘a common matrix’ with that of Moses fleeing Egypt for Midian. (Obviously there are some vast differences as well between these two tales). That nails Moses to Late Amenemes I and early Sesostris I. Revisionists have found some striking 12^th dynasty correlations with the Exodus account (e.g. those bricks mixed with straw).

-The MBI people do just what the Israelites did in their trek through the Paran desert, Transjordania and into Palestine, where Early Bronze Jericho falls.
 

The 13^thdynasty may possibly be partly contemporaneous with the life of Moses.

But be careful. The name, “Moses”, did not mean “General”. It was given to Moses with the meaning of being “drawn from the water” (Exodus 2:10): “She named him Moses, saying, “I drew him out of the water”.” So that might shake your correspondence between Mermoshis and Userkare K.

(Perhaps Joseph, not Moses, was more likely to have left a dynasty of Asiatics).

You will see that I, too, have the 6^th dynasty contemporaneous with the era of Moses, though I have not yet been able fully to integrate it all. Given my synthesis of dynasties (following Courville’s clue but not his model), then some 13^th dynasty princes (or whatever they were) may well have been contemporaneous with the 6^th dynasty’s Neferkare (Pepi the Great).

But Pepi the Great was not a founder, a “new king” (exodus 1:8), so you perhaps need to allow for two major pharaohs before the Pharaoh of the Oppression: namely, the founder Pharaoh and then, as according to the Artapanus tradition, the “Chenephres”(Neferkare?) who married Moses’ Egyptian ‘mother’, “Merris” (Meresankh, or Meres-ankh).

Artapanus’s“Chenephres” (Neferkare) and “Merris” pattern is fulfilled both with Chephren and Ankhesenmerire (i.e. Meresankh), in the 4^th dynasty, and perhaps with Huni (Neferkare) and Meresankh, as explained in the above article, in relation to Sneferu (as Moses).

Merenre, followed by Nitocris, then the Hyksos, is a pattern that I, too, have previously proposed for the finale – but without properly having been able to blend the entire 6^th dynasty with the biblical picture.
 

I hope that this is helpful

Damien.

Jethro Father In Law of Moses



Taken from: http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/0218.htm

Exodus 18 - Jethro's Counsel to Moses

A. Jethro and Moses meet.

1. (1-6) Moses meets with Jethro, his father-in-law, in the desert of Midian.

And Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father-in-law, heard of all that God had done for Moses and for Israel His people; that the Lord had brought Israel out of Egypt. Then Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, took Zipporah, Moses' wife, after he had sent her back, with her two sons, of whom the name of one was Gershom (for he said, "I have been a stranger in a foreign land") and the name of the other was Eliezer (for he said, "The God of my father was my help, and delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh"); and Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, came with his sons and his wife to Moses in the wilderness, where he was encamped at the mountain of God. Now he had said to Moses, "I, your father-in-law Jethro, am coming to you with your wife and her two sons with her."

a. Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, took Zipporah, Moses' wife, after he had sent her back, with her two sons: Moses was here re-united with his wife Zipporah and his two sons Gershon and Eliezer. Apparently Moses sent his family back to Midian at some time, perhaps during the plagues of Egypt.

b. I, your father-in-law Jethro, am coming to you: Moses had a special relationship with Jethro. Even though he was raised in all the wisdom and education of Egypt, Moses no doubt learned more about real leadership from the priest and shepherd Jethro - whose flocks Moses tended until his call at Sinai.

2. (7-12) Jethro glorifies God when Moses reports what the Lord has done.

So Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, bowed down, and kissed him. And they asked each other about their well-being, and they went into the tent. And Moses told his father-in-law all that the Lord had done to Pharaoh and to the Egyptians for Israel's sake, all the hardship that had come upon them on the way, and how the Lord had delivered them. Then Jethro rejoiced for all the good which the Lord had done for Israel, whom He had delivered out of the hand of the Egyptians. And Jethro said, "Blessed be the Lord, who has delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians and out of the hand of Pharaoh, and who has delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that the Lord is greater than all the gods; for in the very thing in which they behaved proudly, He was above them." Then Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, took a burnt offering and other sacrifices to offer to God. And Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat bread with Moses' father-in-law before God.

a. All the hardship . . . and how the Lord had delivered them: Moses gave Jethro an honest report, describing both the hardships and the deliverance.

b. Now I know that the Lord is greater than all the gods: It is possible Jethro knew this before, because he was the priest of Midian (Exodus 18:1). But when he heard of God's great works over the gods of Egypt, it brought this truth to Jethro more clearly than before.

B. Jethro's advice to Moses.

1. (13-16) Jethro observes Moses as he settles disputes among the children of Israel.

And so it was, on the next day, that Moses sat to judge the people; and the people stood before Moses from morning until evening. So when Moses' father-in-law saw all that he did for the people, he said, "What is this thing that you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit, and all the people stand before you from morning until evening?" And Moses said to his father-in-law, "Because the people come to me to inquire of God. When they have a difficulty, they come to me, and I judge between one and another; and I make known the statutes of God and His laws."

a. Moses sat to judge the people: Among such a large group there would naturally be many disputes and questions of interpretation to settle. Apparently Moses was virtually the only recognized judge in the nation, and the job of hearing each case occupied Moses from morning until evening.

b. And I make known the statutes of God and His laws: Because Moses knew the Word of God, he was fit to settle disputes among the children of Israel. Yet taking all this responsibility to himself was a massive burden.

2. (17-23) Jethro advises Moses to delegate the job of settling disputes.

So Moses' father-in-law said to him, "The thing that you do is not good. Both you and these people who are with you will surely wear yourselves out. For this thing is too much for you; you are not able to perform it by yourself. Listen now to my voice; I will give you counsel, and God will be with you: Stand before God for the people, so that you may bring the difficulties to God. And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk and the work they must do. Moreover you shall select from all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. And let them judge the people at all times. Then it will be that every great matter they shall bring to you, but every small matter they themselves shall judge. So it will be easier for you, for they will bear the burden with you. If you do this thing, and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all this people will also go to their place in peace."

a. The thing that you do is not good: It wasn't that Moses was unfit to hear their disputes; it wasn't that he didn't care about their disputes; it wasn't that the job was beneath him, it wasn't that the people didn't want Moses to hear their disputes. The problem was simply that the job was too big for Moses to do. His energies were spent unwisely. Moses must delegate, even as in Acts 6:2-4, the apostles insisted they needed to delegate so they would not leave the word of God and serve tables.

i. Much to Moses' credit, he was teachable; when Jethro said the thing that you do is not good, Moses listened to Jethro. Moses knew how to not bow to the complaints of the children of Israel (Exodus 17:3), but also knew how to hear godly counsel from a man like Jethro.

b. Stand before God for the people: This was the first essential step in effective delegation for Moses. He had to pray for the people. Delegation will not work if God is not in it.

c. Teach them the statutes and the laws: For Moses to effectively delegate, he had to teach the Word of God not only to those who would hear the disputes, but also those who might dispute.

i. If the people knew God's word for themselves, many disputes could be settled immediately. Also, if the people knew God's word for themselves, they would not be discouraged if they could not bring their case to Moses himself - they could know one of Moses' delegates was able give them counsel from God's wisdom.

d. Select from all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth: This was the next step in effective delegation for Moses. Delegation fails if the job is not put into the hands of able, godly men. Only particular men were fit for this job:

·Men of ability: able men

·Men of godliness: such as fear God

·Men of God's Word: men of truth

·Men of honor: hating covetousness

i. Paul gave the same counsel to Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:2: And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

e. Every great matter they shall bring to you: For Moses to effectively delegate, he must still have oversight and leadership over those under him. Delegation is the exercise of leadership, not the abandoning of it.

f. You will be able to endure: This is the first reward for effective delegation. Moses would enjoy life and be able to do his job better than ever. The second reward was that all this people will also go their place in peace; that is, the people would be effectively ministered to.

i. This method also had the advantage of settling problems quickly because people didn't need to wait in line for Moses. "The longer a controversy lasts, the worse the tangle becomes, the more hot words are spoken, the more bystanders become involved." (Meyer) Jesus said we should agree with our adversary quickly (Matthew 5:25).

3. (24-27) Moses follows Jethro's suggestions; Jethro departs.

So Moses heeded the voice of his father-in-law and did all that he had said. And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people: rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. So they judged the people at all times; the hard cases they brought to Moses, but they judged every small case themselves. Then Moses let his father-in-law depart, and he went his way to his own land.

a. Moses heeded the voice of his father-in-law and did all that he had said: Moses wisely followed Jethro's counsel, and surely this extended his ministry and made him more effective.

i. "It is better to set a hundred men to work than to do the work of a hundred men." (D.L. Moody)

b. Rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: In Moses' method of administration, some had a higher position than others. Yet God honored the faithful service of the rulers of tens as much as the service of the rulers of thousands.

© 2004 David Guzik - No distribution beyond personal use without permission